The Reality of Chalkboard!

finally 

But asking "Do i need a degree for x country and does it need to be a certain speciallity like in English?" i would consider i well thought out question that is worth answering

but "Do i need a degree for teaching?" is someone (in my opinion) who isnt really thinking fully about teaching and is just considering dabbling in it if its worth while.

I also check out the facebook page - which is a joke sometimes because the amount of people that post questions and even personal details because they want to get in touch with the help desk.

as i also mentioned - i generalised and used personal experience of what ive seen on here -  the blog is directed at those select few that have not only posted blogs etc asking for help but have emailed asking for help - these people know who they are... im not say you are this person, you know if you are - im not here to point fingers but maybe to help people wake up and think twice about whether they really do need to ask for help...

There are those of us who have done the course, most of the time its a mental block, i mentioned in the past that you just need to take a step back rather than aim to complete it as quickly as possible.

i would also like to end by say that this blog is nothing to do with having or not having a degree - to be honest i think teaching should not be based on this - i know many 'mature' people who didnt have the option to do a degree but have a lifetime of knowledge and should be allowed to teach anywhere - i also know some idiots who are not worthy or the degree they have... my post is about this site being for sharing experience to help people decide where to teach and find out about other countries and have a seperate area for course help

by all means i meant not offence as to whether you have a degree or not!!!

I totally understand where you are coming from - but what you are doing is focusing on one little bit rather than the it as a whole - or understanding from my perpective.

1. As i mentioned, the site started off as one things and has gradually turned into another and is not the same site that i was invited to blog for...hence the annoyance.


2. i fully acknowledge that some people are legit in asking for help and advice on the course and did not say they should stop I suggested a seperate site or tab for this


3. the small section of text you chose to pick out, granted can be misleading - maybe i should have seperated the people who use 'text speech' with those who dont have a degree (although i could argue that you are saying only people who do degrees write like that - the reason i wrote it as it was is because ive seen a fair few comments in text talk AND a too generalized question about degrees - the general question is what i was making reference to about the kind of people who are not quite serious about teaching - i was not saying that people without a degree are these people.


4. i've never suggested people stop asking - i just voiced my opinion - i see many blogs that voice their opinions.


5. even in replied comments I further explained about the degree questions - i guess i should elabourate more and say that many times the questions are too broad - but on the i-to-i site is does state for most of their positions if a degree is needed, yet they still ask.

Discussing points in the course with other students is natural, as is reflected in the fact that we put students in groups to do certain exercises.  This isn't possible with an online course, and so it must be nice to feel that you have a little support out there.. many people have obviously found it difficult to study alone in their living rooms, I know I did, but i persevered.  Now people have another option, ie. to discuss things on Chalkboard.  I do agree that this can be taken too far and that people who write on here in text speak are probably never going to take English seriously enough to teach it well.

However, there is no need to be patronising and rude to people just because you were able to afford a better education than they were.  Everyone is different and everyone's life is different.  As for your last entry here, I agree entirely!  Live and let live eh?

@ Briona - thanks for understanding my original point!  I appreciate it.

It's also offensive to be told

"but "Do i need a degree for teaching?" is someone (in my opinion) who isnt really thinking fully about teaching and is just considering dabbling in it if its worth while."

I'd like to point out that I have a fantastic relationship with my students and that they all make very good progress in their English.  We have an understanding of eachother's needs and styles that gives them motivation and encouragement.  I don't have a degree but I do intend to teach as a career as it's satisfying and rewarding and I'm successful at it.

I can, therefore, only assume that this can be true for anyone else who doesn't have a degree, and those people may just need a little encouragement and advice about the countries where they can teach, so that they can make the very important decision about whether or not to take it up as a career.  I don't see what's wrong with asking here about these facts.

As Briona has said, the law in may countries changes like the wind and the relevant websites are not usually updated with such alacrity.  Only people who are currently there or have recently been are able to answer these questions in any meaningful way.  We are also able to give advice on how to bend the rules a bit so that you can go somewhere and have all these wonderful experiences.  Using a slightly wrong kind of visa doesn't make you a bad teacher, but it can allow you to be a teacher in the first place.

Please note, as I said before, I've enjoyed other posts you have written, but this one did come across as patronising in a few ways.  

Hi,

I didn't mean to start an argument between you two!  However, P.Dixon, you must have realised when you made the original post that it would stir up the hornets nest a bit...

I'm glad to hear that you have helped people as this is obviously something I consider important.  I have read some of your blogs and found them worthwhile and I also agree that asking for answers on this site is cheating.  

However, I would say that it's for other people to choose how much they ask or answer, and maybe the problem lies more in the ambiguity of some of the questions than anything else.  This was the only problem I faced on the course, but I didn't ask anyone for help, in fact I didn't do much extra research either, I just used my imagination and knowledge of English to get me through.  I also relied on an understanding of dynamics within a community, which you might not agree with (!) but obviously, it's different in a classroom than online.  Hence my deliberately provocative original question -

It's very easy to be misunderstood when writing on the internet, and your paragraph "Hey, i wanna teech english in sum other country. gimme sum advice pleeze. I aint got a degree but dunt matter rite"

does definitely appear to imply that people without a degree are  stupid and not worthy of a teaching qualification.  This is offensive to someone like me, who has a good grasp of English grammar, but no degree due to family circumstances at that time of my life.  It's fine for those of us who had better chances in life, but as for the rest of us, we get by on our intelligence and determination instead.

It all boils down to "it my opinion" - we dont have to agree on everything - and from previous times i dont really think we see eye-to-eye on many things :S

I stand by what i said - if people chose to take it certain way then that's up to them.

We are all entitled to our own opinion and this one is mine.

I have no idea why you have to bring up Steve Budd - he was one person who went without a fight and to be honest gave a lot to this site and because of one person was more or less belittled (again it's my opinion)...i know others who slowly drifted off - even i myself dont bother with the site for long period of times because of other commitments.

The blogs are there to post about opinions that relate to our TEFL experience - we don't have to agree... for most part i don't go onto someone esles page a give them advice as such, unless they ask for it - in which i am usually direct and blunt about.

as for my students - if i know the answers is out there i make them find it and then come tell me...they get a higher sense of fulfilment and it means they rely on me less - i wont be there to hold their hand in a foreign country feeding the answers, instead i hope they find useful means of getting the answers to understand. - this is called being resourceful which a few people on here are not.

And i havent suggested people stop asking for help - ive suggested i-to-i try a new tatic that will hopefully allow this site to be useful and easy to find information on countries and then have another part to go to for actual course help...

i have some idea of what might happen but i cant say.

as for the lumping together - ive seen a few comment that were the illiterates asking about needing a degree

But asking "Do i need a degree for x country and does it need to be a certain speciallity like in English?" i would consider i well thought out question that is worth answering

but "Do i need a degree for teaching?" is someone (in my opinion) who isnt really thinking fully about teaching and is just considering dabbling in it if its worth while.

This site should not be the preserve of a few, but rather something for everyone. Between you, me, and Alix we have a wealth of experience and can give advice on working in Japan, Vietnam, Portugal, Poland, Ecuador and Spain. We can also give advice on TEFL when you have an i-to-i qualification and a degree, TEFL when you have a CELTA and a degree and TEFL when you have an i-to-i qualification but no degree. Basically, we can cover all of the bases on three different continents and in six different countries. Thus, it's more helpful to newbies for us to work together than to post judgmental crap that puts potential TEFLers off asking for help. And on the subject of help, Steve Budd is the only person I am aware of who got fed up and left the site. To suggest there were countless others is misleading and probably far from the truth.

@ PDixon: While I agree with your point about there being far too many people who expect others to do the work for them, I also think there's no point worrying about the 'fairness' of it all as these people won't survive in the 'real' world. As many people have said, if you can't pass a fairly simple course, you're probably not all that suited to TEFL.

I agree wholeheartedly about 'text-speak', and have pulled people up on it before now. It's something I absolutely hate - even in text messages - and think that no self-respecting teacher should be seen using it, especially not on a teaching forum. What I don't agree with is lumping together the illiterates who are incapable of typing a 50 word post in anything other than 'text-speak' and those who don't have a degree. They are not necessarily one and the same, which was the point Alix was making.

You're also confusing asking for answers with asking for information on TEFL in X country. No-one should be given answers and posts saying "Help! I'm struggling with Checkpoint 3, Q30-37. Here's my email address" should be deleted immediately. However, asking whether you need a degree to teach in X country is completely different. It's not a stupid question since the rules change almost every year. Two years ago you didn't need a degree to teach in Indonesia, now you do. You wouldn't berate your students for asking you a question they could have looked up the answer to, so why do it here? If you don't want to answer, then don't. There's no need to make a song and dance about it.

There was once a time before this site that people, like myself, bought books and used the internet to research extra information to help pass the course - those who didnt failed... other companies use a screening technique to reduce the number of people failing...my concern is also that too many people pass based on getting help from other people...ive often seen "i'm on my 3rd attempt, ive spent all this money, please help"...2 weeks later there on the next check point asking the the same - does that seem fair...well for some companies in japan they think not - hence why i-to-i is not, for some companies, considered benefitial due to tefl teachers coming here and being unable to teach. Whereas 2 years ago i-to-i tefl was considered an added bonus that ultimately decided whether you got the job over a non tefl person

Finally - i should point out that over the years i have helped a lot of people, most of which are now teaching - other people who once helped on this website have left because of the amount of emails they got that were the same and essentially asking for direct help and sometimes answers - helping has its limits

But my post was not directed at any individual - it was sparked by one post that put TEFL help as a priority for this site which was not why i was asked to come here...you chose to pass judgement on me, directly - clearly you do not know me or read my other posts or have a lot of experience on this site to be tired of the same old stuff.

But just to give some back ground - i've helped a lot of people, not only in tefl but in life... to show the appreciate for my work i was recently given an award for it - so please dont lecture me on helping people in life!

Firstly - let me start by correcting the misunderstanding of the original comment... 

"Hey, i wanna teech english in sum other country. gimme sum advice pleeze. I aint got a degree but dunt matter rite"

This was in reference to the number of post I have seen on this site that use 'short hand text style'. For most part, like others, I do not like it (that's my opinion). At the same time if you are trying to get a teaching job you really shouldnt be using this on an English site whereby potential employers do check!

My spelling is not perfect - mainly because i right quickly, I'm dyslexic and i don't check because normally i dont have time BUT i dont deliberately try to misspell words.

The thing i was trying to point out is the amount of people that do ask about a degree - it is on the website! and with a little extra research you will find out that it varies from country to country... with a little more research you will find out which countries require it, ones you can get around it and ones who dont care!

As for being judgemental and patronising - thats the point... I was invited to this site, like other people were, to write! The aim of the site (as i was told) was to encourage people to share their experiences of teaching aboard via blogs, videos and pictures in hopes it will help people get a better understanding of what its like to teach...instead its become a site infested with people asking for help on the course - i dont mind that but there should be another site or section of the site just for that that doesnt cross over and interupt the flow of blogs about REAL experiences.

Thank you Briona, that was exactly what I meant, and that is exactly what it sounds like when reading the original post.  I was just trying to point out in a somewhat blunt way, that it's both wise and polite to be careful how yoy word your blogs.  I also think that in general, over the course of one's life, it pays not to be too judgemental and patronising about people you don't know, and that giving the odd helping hand to others is a kindness that may be returned to you one day.

I have got through many sticky situations in my life through the kindness of strangers, and whilst I do agree with the point that some people here do seem a bit over dependent, and even not suited to teaaching at all, I think P.Dixon would do himself a big favour by trying not to get so angry about it!

I mean, what really is the problem?  It's easy to ignore the posts you find you find uninteresting, most of them are in relevant groups already.

it seems to me that the course itself will sort the wheat from the chaff.  If a person can't get past checkpoint 3, well, there you go! And then it's up to schools, not us who have passed and are happily working, to give jobs or not as they see fit.

To those who haven't got a degree, I say - don't let it stop you!  I left school at 16 because I was homeless.  I've been through many trials in my time, been a single parent, been on the wrong side of the law more than once, I've got epilepsy.  I've just finished a great year in Ecuador and am now happily teaching in Madrid.  It's all down to POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE and, as I said, the mutual kindness of the human race.

Alix's comment is quite clearly in response to this: Even worst [sic] are the posts "Hey, i wanna teech english in sum other country. gimme sum advice pleeze. I aint got a degree but dunt matter rite", which appears in the original post. To be fair to Alix, it could suggest that not having a degree makes you some kind of illiterate berk. This is obviously a massive and flawed generalisation since there are plenty of people who DO have degrees and yet also boast a dubious grasp of the English language. 'Nuff said.

@ PDixon: the requirement of a degree for visa purposes is to prove that you spent at least 16 years in full-time education. To be fair, you could well have spent 16+ years in education but have no piece of paper to show for it. Unfortunately the only accepted proof is the bit of paper you get at the end, thus no degree certificate means no visa.

I dont think its a troll post - just someone who's misunderstood or read it wrong.

Many great people didn't go to university - some of them dropped out before complete a degree or even high school...

To answer my own question - i would take the test, if it was free, but i wouldnt expect to do well.

So i guess another question would be "If you were paying a lot of more to take a test, would you study/revise for it?"

I think AlixM09's post was a pointless troll post almost as I have read through all the comments and posts and not one person has suggested that those without degrees are stupid! :/

I have a degree in Graphic Design and it certainly doesn't make me any more clever as a teacher, just that I like doing Graphic Design! I had to study and learn quite a lot doing this TEFL, even if I am a native English speaker! However if you want to achieve something then you got work for it right?

Excellent response Paul, the answer to your question is very obvious. 

I am confused to who this question is for and where you get the idea that if you don't have a degre means you are stupid.

My degree is in film and tv production - i wouldnt say that makes me clever or stupid only that i had an interest in film and based on my degree did very well.

Unfortunately for certain countries the degree is needed to prove you are academically trained - aparently this makes you a better teacher or something... or the degree is need for the visa - i dont quite understand why you need a degree for the visa.

people know different things - usually if people have an interest in something that they know little about, they do extra reading and research... for example, if you want to be a teacher i'd persume you are interested in something to do with teaching and so will study, do research and read about teaching methods, techniques etc... given that a number of people (not everyone) are struggling with the course means they need to do extra reading and because they are not i would actually question their interest - if they are doing extra reading, then maybe teaching isnt for them or should find a classroom course...this has nothing to do with a degree but to do with whether people have to put more work into it

i will end on a question - If you knew nothing about Japanese, would you sit a Japanese exam without studying?

Are you suggesting that people who don't have a degree are stupid?

There are clearly some issues with the amount of help posts. But personally i intend to post my experiences of Korea on my chalkboard blog. A seperate tab would be good but i think the best way to overcome this is by getting those travelling to BLOG!  :P If all goes well and i land in S Korea in february i wont forget the stories and help i gained on Chalkboard and will leave my stories to hopefully inspire others :)

I have to say, I totally agree with this post on so many levels. Whilst I have sometimes posted blogs about my TEFL and different checkpoints, I've never really asked for help, more or less just blogging the whole experience so other people who might not be up to that point can get an insight as to what it's like. 

It is a shame that when I come onto this site, I hope to read some interesting blog posts, however I am constantly having to skip posts as they're the same usual post wanting help on the course and whatnot. I think the TEFL help tab would be a very good idea and would actualy separate those who are keen bloggers actually blogging about their experiences rather than people just seeking the answers for their course and wanting advice on something that theyhave not bothered to research themselves. 

I only post here as I copy and paste from my personal blog so I can have some connection with other TEFL teachers out there, however I must admit it has been a rather disappointing affair as there does not seem to be a lot of connection amongst other TEFLers.